Weapons

Want to pitch an idea of the latest gadget that should be added to ships? Maybe you have an issue with ship balancing? This is where to post!
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NiteHawk
Game Developer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Weapons

Post by NiteHawk » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:51 pm

I wanted to be more specific with weapons, and fix a good deal of them.

Right now, all weapons are a mix between ballistic and energy, needing both energy and ammo. I wanted to get off that bandwagon and make a few thing different.

This would go hand and hand with the shield/hull/etc Types, like ballistic/energy/explosive. I was thinking some weapons should be full energy (no ammo), and some ammo only, or very little energy used. The thing is, there needs to be some sort of balance to this. Lower ammo amounts, would be one start for ammo only weapons. But that doesn't really fully help I'd say. I've added weapon delays which could play a part in here though.

The original topic said there should be a extra stat to weapons called 'heat', when the weapon has been fired too much in a row, depending on the amount of heat generate per weapon, it would overheat the weapon and need to be cooled down. So that if we do split up energy/ammo. This 'would work' if energy worked differently on weapons. Energy weapons could be soley based on the main power of a ship, rather then its own energy bar. I would add the 'heat bar' in place of the current individual energy bar, aka each weapon generating its own heat. THOUGH, it could be a global heat bar (all weapons share it) as well.

I just felt that if we add heat bar, there would be no point as energy is. It would be hugely similar to the energy bar 'as is' and would feel like a unnecessary change. What do people think on this? How can we achieve something good here?


For missiles, I want missiles to act like PROPER missiles. low ammo count, very fast and homing for the lot of them. larger missiles could be slower to turn, etc but better on larger ships. Things like that. Right now the current missiles are completely useless, and they home in 'for ages'. Missiles should 'time out' after a rather short period, not fly until a target is hit ;) Perhaps it would lose target if the target falls out of lock with the missile, kind of like how it is currently (real life).

I was also hoping for more interesting weapons, weapons that break up (Missiles would benefit from this) as well. Some nice/actual laser systems could be interesting too, etc. Who knows ;)

Says?

NiteHawk
Game Developer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Weapons

Post by NiteHawk » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:54 pm

Sandtrooper wrote:Tough subject..

Heat should be a factor in most weapons, especially energy weapons. Where else do you remove the excess heat? I know space itself is a frigid environment in terms of temperature and easy to get rid of smoking hot temperatures, but what about INSIDE your ship?

While you're busy on the subject of weapon firing limits, we gotta explore energy weapons and how the game treats them (1.4x treats anything as ballistic projectiles with ammo, even if they sound like energy weapons). Also maybe alternating between projectile lasers and "hitscan" lasers (MechWarrior 2 & 3 style)?

And a last thing that's probably off-topic but we need an "over / under" value for hardpoints, to tell the game to draw the weapon bitmap OVER or UNDER the ship bitmap (it would help in a way for modders and custom ship designs).
Ah true, I get you with the hitpoint over/under bit. For the lasers, I do agree ;)

For heat, I agree on that. Doing this though will require a compete revamp of current weapons. The game would become more fire happy (as in more bullets flying around) most likely. But that's fine by me, I don't know many games that limit you on ballistic weapons for example.

What about types, how many 'types' do you think there should be?

For heat, should it be a general, all in one stat, or should it be per weapon.

-Energy weapons would require more heat, of course
-Ballistics weapons would be close to non for most of them, some could be heat wise.
-A mix (like current weapons) would be both using energy/ammo. They'd probably be considered energy weapons though as a type to not be confusing, but use ammo, simply.
-Explosives, missiles and heavy things like mines/bombs go in this category. Things that are made to go boom with a hard impact.

I'd remove the energy bar for guns. It would be strictly based on your current weapons. This would simplify things. Right now guns require a amount to fire one bullet, plus the recharge time. It makes it hard to balance this way.

What the general idea would be a simple fire of a gun would raise your heat and adjust your reactor amount (negative of course). That's all, no hidden bullshit and no power to charge the weapon.

NiteHawk
Game Developer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Weapons

Post by NiteHawk » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:46 pm

Problem with current times is you don't get enough firepower, so it gets pretty bland. It's either unlimited fire, or non at all, because its too hard to balance right now.

It would be alot simpler then what it currently is. Right now energy draws from your main hold to recharge the gun, and also energy to fire the gun. It gets confusing on how much you actually need to fire per energy shot/etc. If I fire the fire, for simplicity, it should JUST use energy to fire the gun, and remove the bullshit to that takes a draw while recharging the bar too, since we would be removing that.

By heat, we could say jam too, whatever works, but some sort of wait period is fine. Almost all space style games have some sort of delay if you fire your guns way too much though. "Cooldown". It simply works though.

The Mechwarrior series had heat stats per GUN, and I think you know what happens when you use an "alpha-strike" with the Nova mech (immediate shutdown cause you shot all 12 medium lasers), so I would say make it per weapon, but the ship bears the brunt of all the heat in a shared manner.
Yes it was per gun, but the global heat was on the actual ship. While I wouldn't do anything crazy like destroying the internals like mechwarrior loved to do if you overheated like a mofo, I'd have a gunfire cooldown, at least to halfway down before firing (Maybe configurable?) Doing it this kind of style would be fine. Aka global cooldown where all guns have differents amount of heat addon. You could even install 'heatsinks' on your ship, but I'm trying to think that one up so its not to mechwarriorish, name wise :) I would prefer it this way anyways.


By types, I'm referring to what types of weapons are there. When I do hull/shield changes, I want the shields to be more specific, but I don't want TOO many types to make it too confusing. Thats why I based it on three types, Energy, Ballistic, and Explosion. Therefor there would be three 'resistances' for shields/armor that might make you more resistant to one or the other, or weaker to others. Get me yet? For example Reflective Armor would be more resistant against lasers/energy, maybe less resistant to ballistic weapons.

But lets throw way the 'mixed' idea then. And just make ballistic = ammo, energy = no ammo, explosion=missiles/other heavy things that go boom. and be done with it.

Lets just focus on Ballistic and Energy for now though:

Energy = Needs power... Most likely will fire less because of power loss over heat issues. I'm not sure yet though. Will generate heat though ;). Energy is bad to lose because its will be used for more then just firing, of course.

Ballistic = Needs ammo... Can fire until ammo is out. Should have enough ammo for generic weapons to last a bit. Therefor heat might play a bit more for ballistic due to the general fact that you don't need energy.

NiteHawk
Game Developer
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Weapons

Post by NiteHawk » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:55 pm

Arsanthania wrote:I think that the projectile/ballistic weapons should have a heat meter, so if they overheat they have to cool down. however, I think that they should also have limited ammo, and do a bit less damage, as you can fire of the rounds more rapidly than you can energy weapons.
I agree with this.
energy weapons should have NO AMMO, and should be reliant on their energy and the ships' main power core(s), and they stop firing when the energy is out.
I think it needs to use the heat as well to a certain extent. Energy will be the main thing here, but not including heat for all means that it would end up making ballistics more worthless I'd say. Though in general statement, energy weapons would create more heat, that wouldn't work for balance with the general idea we want to do it with. But overall I'll figure something out. For energy weapons, the heat will be a good amounts less then ballistics though, and in alot of cases you probably would eat up more energy then heat. It would play a part though when you mix ballistic with energy weapons, for example. We'll figure something out..

The third type of "primary" weapon should be something in between. something that uses ammo, and energy, much like the 1.x stinger, or disruptor. These weapons should be limited by ammo, but have a large amount of ammo, but also be limited by energy consumption, like the energy weapons. I have no idea what to call this class of weapon, other than maybe "crossover."
I was thinking this too, but I'm wondering about the balancing problems it would create. But I'm going to keep this in mind for now! If anything, they'd be a crossover type, probably based on energy that uses some sort of ammunition. Not sure yet though.
the missiles should have a small-ish ammo size, but have a cooldown, as the next missile has to primed to be fired. something like 3 seconds between shots of the medium missiles, that sort of thing.
Yeah, I defo want to get fancy with missiles and the way they work. There should be several different types of missiles, is what I'm hoping. :)
Lasers:
I think of several types of lasers for this class, the biggest one being the "pulsing" lasers that are currently in SF. There are quick-firing, low energy, predominately point-defense systems, that fire a small amount to bring down smaller ships and incoming missiles.

The second type is the charged laser; This laser class charges up and then fires for a while, up to even 5 seconds. These weapons are meant to punch holes through enemy shields and armor, and use up large amounts of energy, and have a very long recharge/cooldown time.

the third type is the true pulse laser, that can serve as anti-fighter even up to anti-cruiser. these lasers charge, though for a shorter time, and release all of their energy in a single blast, making them effective for quick, crippling blows that wouldn't be expected.
It wouldn't be too hard to modify the current system to have pulse and charge lasers though defo :)

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